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Sunday, December 23, 2012

The March To Liberty

It has been proposed that a march take place, where law-abiding citizens march, armed, toward some destination and following the laws of the state therein on open carry or concealed carry. I suggest that the march, lets call it a March To Liberty, be a coordinated march to individual state capitols and a final gathering close to DC on a subsequent weekend highly publicized at each march on each state capitol.

The federal government has no right to restrict gun ownership as gun ownership is a right of the people through which to oppose tryanny and oppression. It is the ultimate in irony that the government officials intend to prove their fidelity to law by violating the most serious and sobering law of them all, the law, the right, that allows a free people to engage their abusive and oppressive government with weapons of war.

Governor Cuomo of New York stated clearly that he considers a confiscation of weapons, or a mandatory buy-back program a just response to the Sandy Hook killings. That is a Marxists and wholly un-American mindset on display and the arrogance of this would-be dictator of New York to suggest such a thing in America shows a disconnect from the ideals of a republic where the people, the citizens, are supreme. Cuomo's declaration is much more worthy of Ceasar than Madison.

The re-election of Barack Obama has given legitimacy to the idea that the many may oppress and bankrupt the few for the delights of the crown. Our once great republic of responsible liberty has turned into a madhouse of organized larceny.

I suggest, therefore that any march either begin, or end in New York or DC and to hell with their laws.

77 comments:

  1. Right you are sir. its a cesspool of lying hyenas. when do we start? and is it locked ans loaded the whole trip? with 500 no one would stop us. maybe as we travelled through a state, local 2a supporters could march along or join.

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    1. You might start by attending the Sportsman's Day given by a state rep annually. Keep up with the info at www.scopeny.org, or SCOPE on facebook. That s better than an armed march for now. This is put on annually, and we fill the well of the LOB. Usually about 1100 show up, but if everyone is willing to pass this along we can maybe get 10-20,000. If we did, we could scream loud enough that no legislator, no governor, would not be able to hear us. SCOPE, and NYSR&P usually seek to get buses from various counties for attendance. You can also find out about western NY counties that have SCOPE chapters, and join with them to help with this. However, the best thing I can suggest right now is that each of you write out a $20 check, or join by PayPal at the website itself for SCOPE. Make your voice heard in the numbers that make us too big to ignore. What are you waiting for? I am a NYS SCOPE BoD at large member, and life member of SCOPE, NYSR&P, NRA, and GOA.

      Note this, too: NY state rep says only the state has the right to violence against the citizenry, not the other way around: http://patdollard.com/2012/12/dem-congressman-the-state-has-legitimate-right-to-violence-against-rebellious-citizens-but-not-the-other-way-around/

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    2. I grew up in Erie County, NY. Although I.apprciate your passion for your organization I must ask:

      1. What they have done to rid the Empire State of the anti-freedom, American-Jewish, scoundrel elitist, Charles Schumer ?
      2. What have they done eliminate the magazine capacity limitation laws ?
      3. What have they done to make NY state a "shall issue" state ?

      I very annoyed that you make good comments here and then ruin.your.remarks with asking for money ! Seems to me you have little successful track record in NY. Yet to be "heard" you need mo' money. You guys planning on taking a tip from the NRA and start selling wine ? You NYSers have some great wineries out there in western NY. You could make a killing !

      Once a person gives money the begging never stops. You lost me when you decided to solicit here.

      DAN III

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    3. I think I am beginning to understand. Dan III is not in the NYS fight because he is not currently residing in NYS, but he's willing to throw monkey wrenches at others who are in the trenches. Dan III, why do you bother? Seems you are only here to annoy.

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  2. The only laws we will abide by is the original laws of the land. Constitution and Bill of Rights. All other laws usurp our governing documents.



    Mike M.

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    1. So, you don't have a Pistol Permit?

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    2. Hey Paul....get your facts straight....the fed .gov's General Services Administration bought 24,000 Ford vehicles recently. If that ain't begging and taking taxpayer's money, I don't know what is.

      BTW....I carry concealed....it is called Freedom. Pistol Permit = .gov Permission Slip.

      DAN III

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    3. Dan III, I stated no facts. I undertand PP = permission, makes a right a privilege. We've had one pro-2A organization in NYS willing to give up permanent lifetime PP's for renewables as long as they get shall issue. To what specific point? I boo'ed there illustrious potentate when he made that remark in the well of the State Capitol's LOB. I yelled out "We don;t need no stinkin' permits." Next year I approached said groups table and told them that if he did it that year the same would happen.

      You must know that the 2nd CC just affirmed the right of the State of NY to have PP's do you not? It is most likely going to the SCOTUS for further determination should they decide to take the case. SCOPE is going to donate money for this through our legal defense fund. How much are you willing to part with to get your right re-affirmed? SCOPE has already made some quite large payouts from the legal defense fund for Chwick v Mulavey (sp?), and at leat one other. Years back we took the PP's to the NYS appellate with the same outcome. We didn't have any more money to fight because so many pro-gunners sit the sidelines hoping someone else will pay their freight. Shameful I say. Pure shameful, and selfish.

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  3. I am here behind enemy lines in NY. Well known as a commie state, it really is due to the many urban areas. There are plenty of Liberty loving people here but our voices are not heard because of the many commies and especially the criminal media and politicans. We have several pro gun groups here but im not sure if they will be able to rise to the challenge. Indeed, this morning I read on one of their sites that we should maybe sell our guns PRIOR to the confiscation and we should all think of selling our houses. This is total insanity. We know that making calls and writing letters will not work. Im not sure what an armed or unarmed march would do.

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    1. Mike, armed march redefines the narrative. It out Alynski's them. It is a taste of their own foul medicine. But the defining difference between a march and the agenda of the statists is it is lawful legal redress on our part. It is all we have left. And no matter how dangerous it may seem, they have not a shred of legal recourse. Can the cops shoot you? They can any way, for whatever reason they make up. And do, been a lot of target practice of late. Can they jail you, yes again, with ease. Can this mob come at you, you bet. There's agitators trained and waiting for the opportunity to help the mobs. But reality is, they are being agitated to do it with or without your help. You ain't going to like me saying this, fear of what if, only enables easier what is in store for all of us who don't go along with this madness.

      I'm going to call you to consider another aspect that you might do well to think hard on. Your state is not the enemy of Liberty. There are people who are tools planted within it's structure who are. You can move, or find a way to change what tyranny abounds in your state. The feds you can not. The root of it comes from the leviathan. They have become the grand poobars of manipulation and agitation. That is the enemy we have to go up against. I think, believe strongly, marching to your state house, while grand, is not going to have the effect of a march across states in where we display solidarity in numbers.

      All who desire can ignore the truth, but you can not ignore the consequences of it.

      We are always on the defensive, what would it be any difference if a march fails?

      If they mean to drive you out of your house, make them face you with your arms and tell them to try.

      At some point here, if we don't take a role in our Liberty, the enemies of it are going to decide for us.
      Because that is what they are doing.

      This is what this whole thing is about Mike. Newtown ain't about guns, guns are the emotional driven excuse du jor to do things that normally would not be possible for these tyrants. Crisis as a means baby!

      But it is all is about guns ultimately.

      With Newtown, it is the perfect lie. The perfect meme. It is no different than the lies and false narrative about to big to fail, Trevor Martin, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Globull Warming, you name it, it has been one after another non stop, the only difference amongst all these acts of deceit is they get ramped up to a higher level with each ploy. They learn what can be got away with, and next time it is worse. It is the same cast of suspects driving it each time. They just switch roles as needed to fit the lie.

      Because, no one is standing up to them.
      It is all in our hands my friend. There is no one else. The Military and that oath they take?
      I hear crickets.
      The police, they took that oath too, Chirp chirp.
      Our elected representatives? Foregone conclusion.
      The courts? Compromised decades ago.
      56 % of this nation? We know how they voted. Free stuff for life, and the rest of us owe them.

      You worry about your family if you march?
      If we don't march armed, in solidarity, what becomes of our family our property, our very lives is a foregone conclusion.

      There is not much remaining to loose here my fellow Patriot. A few freedoms of permission and the illusions
      of a few comforts to keep us calm.

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    2. "A few freedoms of permission and the illusions
      of a few comforts to keep us calm."
      Damn straight sir. We will never get any more freedom than we have right now, unless we act.
      I will go.
      Child-

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    3. Craigb

      We met but briefly on iiicongress site and as we are both behind enemy lines, its beginning again in our neck of the woods. I do not doubt this one bit that this petty dictator cuomo will get what he wants within the next month a nd although I know anything I might do or say will be completely futile, I cannot allow this to happen uncontested. We must exhaust ALL peaceful means necessary before... If they legislate us into criminals it is over and legal recourse is all gone. If you want in send me an email jdv.315@gmail.com.

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    4. Whwre have all you gun owners in NYS been while SCOPE (Shooters' Committee On Political Education) seeks out new enrollees? I don;t know how many gun shows I sat, how many days I spent at Orleans County Fair awaiting sign ups, and very few make the sacrifice. You're all not willing to do anything while you can, so you wanna start when it's almost too late? These folks just been waiting for a good crisis (Rahm-bo Emanuel), and y'all sit on your hands? In-freaking-credible!

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    5. Paul....seems to me you folks haven't had much success of ridding your state of scoundrels like Schumer, Nadler, Weiner, Cuomo, Clinton and others marxist scum that run the Empire State. Hell you fools, errr folks, elected the carpet bagging, anti-gun Hillary Clinton to waltz into NYS and be elected as Senator !!!! Your boy Weiner would still be there if he hadn't committed pol suicide.

      Paul....perhaps you should advertise some successes your .org has had ? It would go far in you soliciting funds here.

      DAN III

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    6. Dan III, SCOPE did no such thing. SCOPE has been workign with the legislature to get laws repealed. That we have had little, or no success, is because of dupes who won;t join our organization, or aid in the restoration. Unfortunately, many would rather talk than do what is necessary behind the scenes. A volunteer organization which works for you regardless of your giving anything of yourself deserves merit, sir, not confrontation, consternation, damnation, or otherwise. While we have been in the trenches, apparently, you have been sitting the sidelines. I'm sick of the BS from people like you who higher & mightier, preach from your pulpit but can;t seem to get your tail to do what is necessary to be in the fight.

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  4. You're on a roll, MTP. I think you've got the right take on it, top to bottom. And just to correct TL on a semantics point, in this country it's impossible to pass a law that infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. They can call it what they will, but it's not a law because no such laws are allowed. That is, passing such a law is outlawed by a law that legally trumps whatever law they imagined they were passing.

    They'll pass something alright, and the guns they use to enforce it will be real enough, but it won't be any law.

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    1. How's my I-net compatriot, Jimbo doing this day after Christmas ?

      I have to take umbrage at your above statement "....but, it won't be any law". I understand that comment of yours comes from your sovereign-citizen mentality. But, as you know, what the .gov says is a law is a law, regardless of the state or federal constitutionality (is that a word ?) of their law. So either one abides by their "law" or one challenges. As you most likely know all courts are stacked in .gov's favor. Cops, local, state, and federal will enforce that which you say is not a law. That is, they will enforce until the price they pay to enforce outweighs the enforcement of that which they call "law" and what you claim ain't.

      Allow me to leave you and other readers of TL's blog comments attributed to who I consider the wisest of the Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson:

      "Of Liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
      - - - T. Jefferson, letter to Isaac H. Tiffany, 4 April 1819 - -.-

      DAN III

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  5. as much as I agree with the sentiment of a peaceful march carrying firearms openly, even if the number was 500 or 5000 this in reality seems like an awful good way to have 500 people forced to make the choice of surrendering their firearms to the authorities along the roadside somewhere-potentially to a much smaller numerical force whose guns WERE loaded and who WERE cloaked in the police power of the state- or to escalate the peacefully intended march into a roadside firefight which would also be a public relations nightmare.
    the age old rule applies. never confront someone with a firearm if you are not prepared to use it.

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  6. Anon,

    If I march with my rifle, it WILL be loaded. Otherwise I might as well carry a pitchfork. Just like John Parker. "If they mean to have a war, let it begin here."

    I carry daily. Why?... To defend myself and my family...If threatened and feel my life is in danger, I will use it.

    Mike M.

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  7. Toataly meaningless, This whole idea suposes that the The US federal military dictatorship gives a rats ass what we think say or do. THEY DO NOT. The time for an action like this was after the Waco murders. All that this will do is give the Feds and the Goons someone to kill. WE are the POWER. NOT them. It is time to stop asking the bully to please stop hurting us. Its time to kick the "M-Fers" ASS.

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    1. The march is not to impress government, but to encourage our compatriots. Everyone says "no one does anything about these abuses" so I say "lets do something like this" and then about half of us do everything they can to make it seem useless, so we don't do anything.

      Sound familiar?

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    2. Listen to TL's words.
      Think, use reason to see the truth.

      There is going to be some who will carry the standard in the very near future, the pennant of our sovereign being. Government did not create this primal right of sovereign will, God granted that as a natural law of self defense against what ever evil requires defending against.
      That standard to be waved and shaken, carried in proud testimony to our Liberty as free men is our arms, and who we are, it is our persons and our arms. Our person and our arms are our sovereignty.

      This march is not about starting an armed fight, it is not a show down on who blinks first in a gun battle, it is the diametrically opposite of all that. It is to affirm our right, our freedom, our Liberty to defend our selves, our family, our property from whatever may come, to self determination to decide what that is. From armed gangs, to Newtown madmen, to Adolph Hitlers. It is Not some government, not some mandarin in a far off insular location isolated from the realities of life and limb and prosperity who has the right, or power to decide what, how, or why I defend myself.
      It is not even something I will discourse on.
      It simply is my right and no others.
      Nothing will ever change this truth.

      Those arms are not just useful for defense of the material and Liberty, they are defense and a symbol of, our very part in the structure of this here Republic. Those arms are our politics. They are the teeth behind our will, of our sovereign nature as citizens and American's, they are the ultimate symbol of who we are. They arms are what made possible the very creation of what we all believe in here today this very moment in time. Made possible the very truth we are free and able to discuss marching armed.

      You would not own them and keep them if it was not true!

      I have a rifle. It is mine. It is the symbol of who I am. My rifle is all that stands in the way of tyranny. It is all that preserves my Liberty. Nothing else is as profound in the reality of evil verses good as my rifle. To contend otherwise is absurd.

      The notion of taking my rifle from me is abhorrent to everything I believe in my life and my country.
      Not because I want to use it to kill or overthrow, or even defend it that is possible to do in a more peaceful way, but because! I do not want to have to use it.
      And if that requires me to walk down a road with or with out others, to shake that rifle in the faces of those who believe they know better than me and wish to take it from me, that is what I have to do. Do, to show them they are wrong, that it will not come to pass, that it will not stand as long as I have a breath in these free bones.

      What consequence happens of this, I do not know, and neither does another soul. But I do know, if I do not do something, they will come for my rifle. I have everything to gain.

      If I am arrested I will cross that bridge when it happens.
      If I am shot, I hope to acquit myself with honor and ferocity, because if I am able, I will shoot the other bastard for his beliefs first.

      I hope and pray to God it does not come to that. I believe there is time before the point of no return.
      If some of us do not grasp this time and use wisely, the worst we can imagine is going to come to pass.

      I will be damned if I will allow some other person to suffer or die affirming for my Liberty.

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    3. Mr. Davis....you have planted the seed. But the ops and logistics would be monumental.

      1. Mission statement.
      2. Declare a destination.
      3. Declare a route.
      4. Food.
      5. Water.
      6. Weapons carried.
      7. Medical treatment.
      8. Banners, flyers, signs, posters to be recommended for carry.
      9. Wills and testaments completed along with executor of estate declared.
      10. Rules of engagement.

      Just the thought ALONE of marching any distance is potentially disasterous. How many of the folks commenting here have rucked 2 miles with a 35# ruck ? A purely basic, carbine-length ARmalite is 8#s. Add a warbelt with water, two criminal hi-cap mags with pouches, a dump pouch with some fruit and snacks, a small boo-boo kit or full blown IFAK, hat, shemagh, the all-important cell phone and one is talking 25-30 pounds easy.

      Take into account that the bulk of your blog and other blog participants, are over 40 and more likely 50+ years of age, and this march concept is appears more challenging than a stroll thru the park, on a Sunday in July.

      How many of you keyboard warriors have walked just 3 miles with a 50# ruck ? How many of you have boots broken in for marching ? How many of you know the basics of ruck-marching ? How many of you know the treatment for blisters ?

      Gee....and I have hardly even mentioned dealing with the assholes with badges who will confront said marchers.

      Remembers folks....actions speak louder than words. But one must prepare to execute.

      Merry Christmas.

      DAN III

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    4. Dan,
      If we cant do THIS march then how the hell will we march when the shooting starts?
      This should be the easist exercise we could have. How will we handle the logistics of a unit of 30 men carrying out an insurgency?
      This is a walk in the park.

      1. We March
      2. To the local Capital
      3. Point A to Point B with stops
      4. You bring it you eat it
      5. See point 3
      6. You bring it you carry it
      7. IFAK and personal kit. Designated medic once we assemble
      8. See point 6
      9. Legal Zoom .com
      10. Dont shoot them unless they aim to shoot us.

      See that was easy.
      Lets go get it.

      Grenadier1

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    5. Has anyone started Recruiting Posters to put at local gun stores, gun shows, military surplus, etc.?

      This should start some visibilibity at least 3 months out.

      Probably want to build a website, too.

      I can handle that part of it.


      IF THIS BE TREASON, LET US MAKE THE MOST OF IT.

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    6. Grenadier 1, yep it is always easy on paper, always.

      I wonder if Generals Eisenhower and Montgomery planned the D-Day invasion with the simplicity and easiness you express here.

      I thank you for your remarks but just know that I would never allow you to be my S3/G3.

      I hope you have a sane and Liberty filled New Year.

      DAN III

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    7. Dan,
      Just FYI I have planned large scale search and rescue exercises with 100 plus people and as many as 6 aircraft. Coordinating ground and air operations.
      I also monthly take 25 plus hungry boy scouts into the woods to camp. I do know a little bit about logistics.
      Now thats not the same thing as Operation Overlord but then again this is nothing like Overlord. Its a protest march. Somehow braindead college students manage to get these things going with little more than a twitter account. They have way more success than we do.

      Keep all things in perspective. Dont over think this.
      You over think it and you will become overwhelmed and do nothing.


      Grenadier1

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    8. Sorry Gren 1....I posted legitimate questions. You make light of it comparing an armed march to a Boy Scout camp out roasting wienies and marshmellows, over a fire on some .gov forest land.

      So, I see you don't want to answer my original questions. Typical. I'll ask one again...."Have you rucked 3 miles with a 50# ruck"? "Do you have a pair of boots broken to walk in" ?

      Gren 1....I would lay money on my belief you couldn't walk 3 miles with 50# let alone 10, 20, 30 or more with just the clothes on your back.

      Address my original points. Please don't lecture me about doing things because anything is doable 'cause you camp out with young lads.

      DAN III

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    9. Really?
      No I dont ruck with a 50 lb pack. Its only full of the essentials and its down to about 25lb's depending on food. Hammock set, Hygene bag, change of socks and underwear, messkit, food, water filter. Winter time I throw in some thermals and strap a sleeping bag to the outside and that puts the weight closer to 30lbs. As for boots yes I wear a pair of Garmonts waterproof on an almost daily basis but I have a pair of 3 year old Altama deserts that are really well worn and a new pair of Bates that I am still working on.


      Yes this will be less of a logistical challenge than getting 30 scouts on a camp out. When I do that I am responsible for providing all of their meals, fire, lighting, water, shelter and sanitation. Their boys and the other leaders and I have that responsibility to provide what they cannot.
      This is a protest and if I were "planning" it I have no responsibility to provide any of that. Your an adult and you are supposed to be a militia man. If you cant provide all of that on your own then stay at home, that kind of thinking is what got us here in the first place. This is not the military. We dont have a big green supply train with a 3:1 ratio of lograt to warfighter. This is smoke'em if you got'em otherwise carry on. Anyone TL, me, Alan, CA anyone who would put one of these marches together is not responsible for the wellbeing of the participants. Your on your own.
      I made light of your questions and that was flipant of me I think I addressed them better in the post I made below. I am not trying to start a dispute here Dan just telling you dont overthink this thing. If you make this out to be a major operation that takes weeks of careful planning then it will go nowhere. This needs to be kept lite and organic so that people will commit to doing it. Its a simple walk. You just need to carry your rifle, ammo, canteen and a breadbag. All that other stuff you leave in the truck and have your wife drop it off at the campsite.



      Walk in the park,

      Grenadier1

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    10. You can barely get 1500 people to attend an Albany Sportsman's Day. How many do you think will be marching in the cold to Albany? You are damned fools. I know what the mentality of the average pro-gun, pro-2A person is. I have sat tables begging people at gun shows to join SCOPE, often to no avail. We might get 13-20 sign ups, and most of those reups from the people os ESACA, and/or similar. Of course many of them are business folks who can write off their donation, but the average Joe? He's more likely to trumpet NRA's heston, or some other ignorant statement about how they'll fight it out with the cops when the time comes. When the time comes, it
      ll not be the time of your choosing It will be in the dead of night, when you are asleep, and your wife & children will likely die as they are confronted by these jackboot thugs. 1994 would have been the time to do this, but no one was willing. There are still many pro rights folks who think that if we just compromise one more time...
      BullSpit! One compromise made them bold. Numerous make them ever more bold. They have been licking their wounds, and awaiting the day when they could rum up the needed support, knowing the gun owner community fails to make the stand with membership in state & federal pro-2A associations. They know many of these are Democratics, who, when push comes to shove will throw in with them. We have some of these in SCOPE, one parrots the query about why it is we need black guns (ASSault Weapons). "They aren't hunting implements."

      Maybe it'll take something like this, but I'm not wasting my life when I know so few NY'ers are/were willing to do it through legal channels when we had the momentum. Now, this federal government is looking for the right time to strike, to set the fires, to call for martial law, to start the round ups of civilian gun owners. So, I would get off this tripe if I were all of you, and get your self to the SCOPE website, and join. Apparently, at the Rochester ESACA gun show this weekend they got quite a lot of signups. It's time to put your money where your mouth is.

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  8. They won't fire on a large group like 500 it would be a PR nightmare. That would definitely set things off. This regardless of the outcome because politically, there won't be one because they don't care about our opinions will be highly publicized and covered by national media. This will get our message to everyone that there are still patriots here. This followed be a organized effort to get everyone off the couch into the field can make a change.

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  9. I won't be risking my life and property in what will be a futile-at-best PR event. No, this is a time for personalized "dirty tricks" carefully targeted against those elected and unelected persons who are the "decision makers" who always seem to make the anti-freedom decision and announce publicly how bad they feel about it.

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    1. Do as you will and rationalize it as you see fit. As has been pointed out above, this is something that should have been done back in '93 before the ashes were cool. Instead we've retreated and rationalized and hunkered down waiting for "something" to breathe a little life into our cause. Now freedom is on life-support and the liberals are pulling on the plug.

      Like that day at Concord Bridge, the patriots are willing to resolve the issue peacefully and a peacefull march of like-minded people certainly has precedent. The famous marches throughout the south may not have been directly responsible for the Civil Rights Act but they certainly got people's attention. If this proposed march is only half as successful it will serve our purpose.

      There is another thing to consider: Time. It is inexorably depleting our ranks. In '93 there were far more of us who remembered a free America. We're dying off at an alarming rate and being replaced by a horde of locusts intent only on getting more of the goods of those of us who actually work. If we should have done this in 1993, what do you think our chances will be in 2023?

      I say do it now or melt your guns down to forge more comfortable chains for your future... and don't forget to pass them on to your children.

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  10. 1775 local Committees of Safety, ratcheted up; shunning doesn't work. Perhaps the modern equivalent of a pitch-fork equipped band of brigands (as described to the Crown) in a local enabler's front-yard with a public denouncing will, depending on locale, for those who are unable to march to the aid of "the good people" of New York or to cross the moat of the King's castle. Pick the local object of disapproval based on fact. Just tossing a local option out.

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  11. For the record , I'm in. I'll walk from Georgia to DC to New York. I will. I'll give up everything I have now.

    But I will not do it alone. I won't do it with a couple of guys. Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

    Those of you that think this is a good idea, and I think it is, have to understand that we would be confronted at some point and and a decision must be made.

    Are you ready to make that decision? More to the point, are you ready to live with that decision?

    You ain't gonna be able to go home. There's a good possibility you would die somewhere along the route.

    Again, for the record, I'm in.

    My feeling is battalion strength at least. And I would prefer brigade strength.
    Anything less, good luck to you. It will be nothing but suicide. I don't do suicide.

    I'll walk every step of the way. I will engage any rat bastard that gets in the way. I'll do it. But I will not commit suicide.

    So, start signing up you bastards. Right here. Right now. Pick the date. Choose the start point and the end point. I'm with you.


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    1. In, without hésitation or reservation

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  12. Fools. You will be tagged, identified and cut from the herd. What happened the the philosophy of "The Grey Man"? Do you think that the Roman citizens marching on the Senate the day before the gates fell to the barbarians made any difference?

    We are already past the point where normally a collapse would happen.

    No other society has been able to debase its currency as the USA has and survived. We add zeros to electronic databases to float markets, we buy our own debt with "bonds" and "IOU's" that will never be paid, we import races that share none of our values or honor or past that steal jobs from the indigenous White population and whose children prey on the productive and poison our cities with crime. Europe does the same, only with the added horror of Persia/Islam, an enemy of 1400 years. The inventions and creations of the productive, even the very persons themselves we export to other lands while embracing stupid ideas such as "Free Trade" and "open borders" and high taxation which only speed their departure.

    It is by our own hand we destroy what is good here. If you are to continue it is not by marching or protests or feel good speeches, for nothing can be done. When the Constitution falls, so do the shackles that bind your hands.

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    1. You are exactly the piece of shit I don't need.

      Fuck you. Fuck you in the ass with a square dick.

      Delete
    2. Hey Alan, Merry Christmas. Guys like you and MTP will never understand what he's saying..."It's someone else's fault."

      It's always someone else's fault. Over and over again, like a broken record. Then the fantasies build up, like "indigenous White population." That's close, huh?

      The point of a march IMO is not for the looters, or for fancy PR or anything like that. It's for the marchers themselves, that they might stand up and declare exactly to whom their lives belong...in a clear and unmistakable manner. As I read him, that's what MTP has been saying all along.

      Hey...if they shout it loud enough, maybe they'll start to believe it themselves!

      I suspect we'll be having that drink this year, Alan. I'm guessin' it'll be somewhere between West Virginia and Disneyland-on-the-Potomac, but we'll see. And thanks TL, and you too MTP---we may not have peace yet, but at least there can be good will. Merry Christmas y'all.

      Delete
    3. This has nothing to do with PR. Fuck PR. My life and liberty will not hinge on what any one writes about me. If there are 10 of us fired on. We get a second page story. But show me a county, or city that would mow down 500 peaceful, armed patriots and I will be in the front of the line. We have bowed down long enough.

      Hang together or hang separately.
      Child of the trillion dollar wasteland

      Words don't mean shit any more.

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    4. So Child....are you willing to march in NY State with loaded Armalite ? Are you willing to march on Cuomo's mansion with Armalite locked and loaded on one shoulder and a hangman's noose over the other shoulder with Cuomo's name on it ? Oh....and don't forget the biggest enemy of your freedom....the biggest member of the Jewish
      cabal of DC elititists....Charles Schumer. Bring a noose with is name on it also.

      So....Child, what are you willing to do ? Playing nice-nice gets one nowhere. Is it not time to get mean and nasty ? For like the Muslims the ruling elite know only ONE thing.....FORCE !

      DAN III

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  13. Mt Top Patriot, sir, well-stated when you wrote, "At some point here, if we don't take a role in our Liberty, the enemies of it are going to decide for us.
    Because that is what they are doing."

    Count me in. I've never protested or marched ever in my life. But I fear if we do not now, we will by default be surrendering our right ever again to.

    Logistics are gonna be a bear on this - I don't have time to walk to DC from GA but to drive in and assemble on the grounds is doable.

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    1. Dear mdfuller,
      You hit on something that is the foundation of it all.

      We all being on the same page in this endeavor is everything, it is the beginning and the crux of our Liberty in the times that have come to us. It is our Liberty and I believe it is critical that we define that. Not the media, or our representatives. Certainly not our representatives, because that is what they are supposed to be! Let us show them what representation means, let us refresh the functions of representative government for them.

      You brought up a most salient point about the limits one can take part or attend.
      What matters most is any participation any of us are capable of counts most. If it is 1 hour, that is a beautiful thing. 1 mile, an afternoon. It counts towards something inherent within us here, and something larger and better than us. Do not think it inadequate or dishonorable. To the contrary. It is solidarity, the act of brotherhood in Liberty. The act of taking part in any form is what matters most. It is the symbol which must take place. And only participation can provide that. Like so many agree on, the time of words is ending. This is a grand opportunity to fly our flag, to quantify our Liberty. To show ourselves, and maybe our fellow Americans we shall not be disenfranchised, we will not be denied, pogrom is unacceptable, vilified for our inherent right to self defense is unacceptable, we have a natural right to be a part of the process of republican form of government. How it is WE that are integral to the Liberty, safety, happiness, prosperity and Freedoms of All Americans. We are the lynch pin of securing and maintaining these truths. That the truth of all this is the dynamic, and it is our duty, our obligation, our birth right, just as Liberty itself is our birthright, to show ourselves, and the world, it is righteous.

      Delete
  14. " Madhouse of organized larceny ". Yeah , that`s about the size of it. Money is their only God and bickering their only pass-time. They seem to be a little slow getting it through their thick skull`s , that they have extorted all they can get from us ........as we have nothing left to give them. ( money wise that is ) ! .

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  15. Define the language and you control the argument. Seems the current 'trend' on MSM is about firearms for 'hunting' with no mention of the Second Admendment and what that admendment stands for much to my dismay. I would like just one person (if they were allowed) to stand up in a national discorse and explain what the founders ment my the Second .................
    At this point, my feeling is that once a trigger puller (and I was) always a trigger puller and to that end, if someone/anyone comes knocking and demanding what is mine by birth right (as we believe in this country, granted by God), they will get a face full of lead ............. I am truly tired of the 'discourse' and believe the lines have already been drawn.
    All the best to you at this time of year.

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  16. What about my crossbow? I think they have been around for 5-600 years or more and are not only silent but deadly too. Perhaps some of those Nimrods in DC might like to find out the hard way about the "Assault Weapon" value of a crossbow. Are they going to ban them too? Regarding the school shooting, the photo of an armed teacher in Israel with her students is a wake-up call that only an idiot would even think of going up against an armed teacher. OH! I forgot, evil people are idiots and if this CT episode had been tried in Israel, the shooter would have been killed right away. Nuff Said.

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  17. Is the author and respondents willling to march on Cuomo's governor's mansion? Will you march with Armalite locked and loaded with the murderous hi-cap magazines feeding your weapon of Liberty ? Are you willing to confront the NY State troopers when they block your route ? Are you willing to KILL THE BASTARDS and yourself be killed ?

    Not too difficult of questions are they ? The rhetoric means nothing. What are you, we prepared to do ?

    DAN III

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  18. I am a doer, not a planner. Make out a route, and time. I'll do my damnest to be there in spite of finances. And if I march an hour, or a day, or a week, any amount of time will be worth it to say, "Yes, my grandson, I was there in spite of it all".

    And as for DAN III and his fellow travelers, if you don't have anything constructive to say, then STFU & STFD.

    B Woodman
    III-per

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    1. Mr. Woodman....I had NOTHING constructive to write ? To state ? You kind sir are EXACTLY the problem with you alleged "patriots". You attacked my comments with your most Christmas season-like greeting of "Shut-The-Fuck-Up". My, how christian of you.

      Mr. Woodman....as you found my comments to be not to your liking....then I guess you answered my questions. At least for yourself. I asked all of you keyboard warriors pertinent questions. Instead of you making specific comment, pro or con, to my questions, you ignored them and made a personal attack with no specifics. My, how Alinsky-like of you.

      However, in your ad hominem attack on my comments, you, in essence, answered NO to my question of marching with locked & loaded ARmalite on Cuomo's mansion. You answered NO to my questions regarding one's ability to ruck 3-miles with a loaded ruck and broken in boots. And you certainly answered NO to my question regarding your being prepared to engage .gov obstructions with deadly force.

      Mr. Woodman....your kind, in such an activity as an armed march, are not an asset. You're a detriment. You'll be the fat-ass type sitting on the side of the road looking sullen and beaten that the MSM will swarm on, to make the march effort appear destined to failure. The MSM will use your type as an unofficial representative of the effort as you bellow at them...."Shut-The-Fuck-Up" or some other intellectual remark.

      Again....I thank you for your most Christmas-like remark of "Shut-The-Fuck-Up". Your MOST constructive commentary was very appreciated.

      DAN III
      "There Are Enemies Amongst Us"

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  19. Mr. Davis....re: your essay above. You write that "law-abiding marchers" should march in compliance with "the laws of the state". In your closing you write "the hell with their laws". Quite contradictory.

    So Mr. Davis, which is it ? Law-abiding or to hell with their laws ? As B. Woodman responded to me earlier you could tell me to "Shut-The-Fuck-Up" as Mr. Woodman so eloquently greeted me on Christmas Day. In turn, you could take Mr. Woodman's comments as advice and execute your thoughts somewhere, sometime, "on a wing and a prayer" and hope for the best. Or you could use your blog to gather planners who would propose questions and solutions, to any honest effort for a "March For Liberty"

    So, what will it be ? Law-abiding, armed marchers or to hell with the laws ?

    DAN III

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    1. Hi, Dan; hope you had a Merry Christmas. I think I covered this...there's no such thing as a law which infringes on the right to keep and bear arms, at least not in this country. Once again, it matters not what the dictionary or Chuckie Schumer says about it. I mean, it's something alright, and that something gets enforced alright, but it ain't a law. It's a collectively vomited decree, or something like that.

      Personally I got a thing about unloaded weapons, so I'd either carry a pitchfork or be loaded. But that's me. I think you make a good point about words being different than actions--"We are what we do, not what we say we do"--but I'm not sure why you view an armed confrontation, especially at a governor's mansion, as the only alternative to nothing.

      For myself, I'm not willing to do nothing nor am I willing to engage in an armed confrontation at anyone's residence. I know that you yourself have this thing about others who don't see everything exactly as you do, so maybe you could explain why I must be mistaken in my reasoning.

      I think MTP has done a fine job of explaining it all, from the why to the how and what. All that's missing is the when and where, and those are simple compared to the others. So could you explain your gripe a little more clearly please? TIA

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    2. Jimbo....I thought Jefferson's quote would suffice to explain my disagreement with your not a law comment. Jim....you have this thing about saying things are not when they are. Like your arguing with me in the past that a toll is not a tax. Even when I gave a dictionary definition of toll you still stood by your claim toll is not tax.

      The "law" is the "law" when elected/appointed .gov make it such. Are they G-d's 10 commandments ? No. But they are the .gov's laws and we will be forced to comply or lose in all ways imaginable.

      You can say something put forth via .gov types is not the "law" as you see it. But the cops and the judge will use the power of .gov to tell you it IS. No matter your beliefs.

      Symbology means nothing. Weapons carried without the commitment to use them per the Rules of Engagement, are meaningless to the communists ruling our lives today.

      Since you always leave comments to me with a question, I'll take from your routine and ask you one. Do you believe if John Parker and his Patriots stood on 19 APR 1775, with unloaded, symbolic muskets that the lobsterbacks and King George III would have stopped their effort to capture powder and ball stores ?

      What say you Jimbo ?

      DAN III

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    3. Yes, I think they would've been stopped easily. That's one of the reasons I gotta thing about unloaded weapons. In defense of the others here though, I'm pretty sure their goal isn't to capture a weapons cache. Still, I think an unloaded weapon is more dangerous to the user than no weapon at all. But that's me. One thing we disagree about is that I think it's perfectly okay for others to have a different value system than me, as long as they don't mess with mine.

      As to the law question...since nothing can trump the Constitution, at least not legally, it can't be a law. Or, I guess you could call it an "illegal law," but I doubt any dictionary is going to help you out of that self-contradiction.

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    4. BTW Dan, if you find yourself with a moment free to address the topic, please do share whatever gripes you might have with the march as described by MTP. That's another difference between us---I generally answer your questions.

      You mention how symbology and words mean nothing to the commies, and I think that's right. But for that to be relevant, you'd first have to explain why the marchers are doing anything at all for the commies.

      Delete
  20. Dan III and Mr. Klien, we don't know each other and I don't mean to intrude on a conversation, however, it is being held in public. If I might point out a small issue in the allegory of the British at Lexington versus the proposed march today. The farm boys at Lexington were interdicting a military operation. The British were sent out to arrest and take arms and ammunition from the people. They done it before and where doing it again. They knew it and so did the citizen soldiers. The modern analog might be if we as citizens had gone to Waco or Ruby Ridge to defend those people who were attacked and even murdered by the modern "lobsterbacks". We didn't. And that is not the intent of this proposed march as far as I understand. If we engage in a peaceful march, with or without weapons, we own the moral high ground if interfere3d with or even attacked. And I do not believe we would be attacked as much as hassled. The key is not to let the other side control the action. The moral ground may not be important now, but it will be as this civil war unfolds over time. If the state or federal government passes a law and tries to confiscate guns, then we have a new twist to work from, one that they would have started, and we will need to defend each other from the new "lobsterbacks". If they start it after we have demonstrated our peaceful position, again, we own the moral high ground. The media may not care, but those in our communities will. I suggest There are four types of americans. Those who take without producing, those who produce but are ignorant of the reality of the world around them, those who are generally clueless and then us who produce and are tired of being taken from. While the takers grow daily, so does the number of our side from the clueless and ignorant populations. This conflict will likely explode, but the more of the two middle populations we can garner, the better we will be. It is those groups who will evaluate the high ground and who is on it. Only time will tell the future, but I think all three of us may agree on the general outlook. We may only disagree on the road that takes us there. I suggest this is the time for that forceful, but peaceful, march if it can be done in numbers that are too big to ignore. Before Virginia left Britain in 1774 and the Union in 1861, she exhausted every means of peaceful conflict resolution. It was the honorable and moral thing to do before the "range went hot". Just my two cents....

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    1. "The key is not to let the other side control the action."

      Oh, do I agree with that! I also agree that the moral ground is everything. "Philosophy moves the world," after all.

      It's also why I don't give a hoot what others conclude. I mean, obviously it's better to have more moral people than fewer, but that just isn't the KEY. If others want to be idiots, then so be it. If they seriously think they can be "lawful" while infringing on my right to keep and bear arms in this country, then let 'em think that. If they believe my life and earnings are theirs to use and control, and that this is somehow "moral," then that's what they'll believe. I can't change what another person believes anyway.

      I'm happy to discuss what morality is all about. I enjoy trying to persuade others that they ought to make the best of their lives...that they're worth it. But what I won't do, is allow MY life and MY values to rest on anything that they believe. They can have whatever lives they choose, and I'm gonna have mine. And since the ONLY way one can stop another from living the life he chooses is with physical force, I'm not going to pretend that my life in any way rests on what others believe. If they try to stop my life, then I have to defend that life, period. That's not the time for argument or persuasion; whoever is left standing "won." Lost less, technically.

      Sure, there might be hundreds of millions of people who think my life is theirs to control, but it isn't anyway. It was mine from the get-go, it's mine now and it'll be mine tomorrow. These are FACTS and I think the biggest mistake most people make is the belief that their lives--which means their decisions and actions--rest on what others believe. It never did and that's what the scam has always been about.

      Anyway, that was a nice comment MF...very level-headed. I'd rather not fight a battle alone, but I'm done caring whether others believe my life is mine to live, or not. It is. That's the fact of the matter. There's nothing else to say about it.

      "I own myself" and so does every other person on Earth. When they're ready to recognize this fact, they will. Till then, whatever mess they make of their own lives and their societies is their business. I have no part in it and I explicitly reject it.

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    2. So, are ya gonna kit up and do the walk or not?

      I figure we can talk about all this stuff along the way. It should be a long walk with no noise discipline necessary. However, I suspect the time to talk will be a function of the number of the body.

      By my calculation, we have less than squad strength at present. Probably a fire team or less if the command to fall in were actually given now. I figure any conversation amongst such an anemic force would be fairly short and quite possibly interrupted by gunfire, screaming and bleeding.

      Not my idea of sending a message.

      Ergo, at least battalion... Um, check that. At least brigade strength. I figure it would take at least a little while for them to decide how to respond to such a body and if a well thought out order of march was established, it would also give pause to any inclination to engage quickly.

      Then, we would be able to really enjoy the deep discussions that go on ad nauseum across the blogs because we would actually be putting all those words into action.

      I say we do it in the spring. I like spring. Everything starts anew in the spring.

      And maybe, just maybe...

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    3. Mr. M....

      The answer to your question of a march is a resounding NO. Contrary to those who comment here regarding how easy it is to execute proposed march, none have stepped up committing themselves to organize said march.

      Mr. Davis proposed the concept of a march. Many of the keyboard warriors wrote "hoohah, hoohah I'm In" but no one question the requirement to organize such an event. Mr. Davis now appears to be backing out on his call for a march as in his last essay he writes he'll attend if someone else organizes it. Any of you keyboard warriors reading this willing to take charge and organize this "easy" event ? Maybe DHS employee Wodman would like to inject his constructive advise on how easy a march would be ?

      DAN III

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    4. Well Dan, you see, I just learned a little more about you. You've never shouldered a weapon and stood a post, have you?

      For the moment, let's say I've taken point. It's on me. Have you read and understood what I have written? Do you understand the danger involved in such an undertaking? Do you even know how many men constitute a brigade? I suspect not. I assure you sir it would not be easy to move such a body of armed men under the circumstances as I view them. And I assure you I view them with a critical eye.

      While I surmise the possibility slim, I do view such an undertaking as absolutely appropriate, necessary, and worthy of historic note. The fact that we, the remnant, can't or won't rally to make a firm and undeniable statement is beyond me.

      But alas, I am a romantic. So few of us left I fear.

      One thing I am sure of though, Providence favors the bold, the timid die horrific deaths.

      Oh, and Dan. Just for my own edification, who's side are you on?

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    5. That reminds me...

      We will have to educate the uninitiated and then post outriders, then a guardmount at night.

      We will need some more old school NCOs...

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    6. Mr. Mulienax.....you know so much about me....post it here smart guy.

      It appears to me most of you posting here are keyboard warriors who have no clue as to what it would take, in courage alone, not to mention planning, to execute a meaningful march. You as an example Alan claim you'll "march" from Georgia to DC. No you won't. You set conditions that only you will determine meets your acceptable standards of sufficient numbers. So why offer up your services when you know you'll never have to perform ?

      So Alan....when I read your infantile, crude and senseless attack against the.comments made by 10mm Auto I knew then you were just an another Internet tough guy. You wrote quite insulting remarks against 10mm Auto, unjustly. You wrote that which you wouldn't say to one's face. Easy isn't it ?

      You figure out whose side I'm on but one thing is certain....I'm not on the side of fools who spout ridicule and nonsense at those with meaningful input. I'm not on the side of those who express willingness to participate in a "show of force" BUT only if it meets his numerical standards. I'm not on the side of one who wants someone else to do the creation and planning and immense amount of work to get a march to the SP.

      Now about that walk from Georgia....would Columbus be your SP ? At 3 mph you should reach Atlanta in say....30 hours ? DC in....? Well you figure it out Alan. It will teach you about planning.....you know that "piss poor" thing.

      Alan....would you agree....the words and phrase "Follow Me" are not part of your vocabulary ?

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    7. Mr. Mtn Farmer....glad you chimed in. Me and Mr. Klein have exchanged thoughts elsewhere. So we are aware of each other and have some idea of where each others thoughts lie.

      My decision to venture into this "discussion" arises from what I perceive to be Internet hogwash, muscles, keyboard warrior mentality. Currently one responder here is challenging my credentials, so to speak. Rather than.answer my valid concerns and questions regarding an armed march, said individual decides it is more beneficial to undermine the credibility of my questions and.comments. You sir, on the other hand, interject your thoughts with an unneeded apology to Klein and I (we are ALL guests of TL's). You then express meaningful and heartfelt thoughts intended to provoke constructive discussion. Thank you.

      My entire involvement here has been to identify that this March For Liberty idea is just that. All the responders here want to say 'count me in" but don't care to help turn the fantasy march into reality. The comments here are just so....well, bluntly, so much bullshit.

      Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe we will meet someday in reality.

      DAN III

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  21. Set the time and Date.

    I can equip two complete PLT medics and am working on more kits.

    The key now is recruitment! Has anyone started working on a recruiting strategy? Or are we all just standing around arguing?

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  22. I see a lot of (very well worded) chest beating and not much in the way of action. 5,000 protesters with rifles as part of an "open carry" rally would be quite the sight in Albany. I wouldn't even know where to begin organizing something of that magnitude but would gladly be a participant.

    Jimmy III

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  23. "My decision to venture into this 'discussion' arises from what I perceive to be Internet hogwash, muscles, keyboard warrior mentality."

    Right analysis, wrong context. This isn't some battle plan being devised; it's a march. Of course it would have no effect on any tyrants; there's only one thing that affects a tyrant anyway.

    I'll grant you that it's no longer a battle of ideas. The ideas are out there and everyone knows who holds which ideas. And worse, what they're going to do about it.

    But none of that is the point. The point can be found in this very thread by MTP at 1426 on Christmas Eve. It's THAT which you must argue to make your point, Dan, not how futile something like this would be with regard to what others will do. Right now, everything is futile as far as that goes, and that will only change--if it does--when words turn into action.

    The goal is to WIN, to live. To do that, a man must focus on what he himself is all about. What the tyrants are all about, is only too easy to figure out.

    If you can say what MTP has wrong in that comment--anything at all--then your gripes might be relevant. But without that, what you're saying is, as usual, the right stuff but about the wrong topic.

    Plus, it doesn't take organization for the sort of thing MTP is talking about; it takes publicity. Fundamentally, a march like this is for the marchers and I think MTP expresses that well. If a guy wants to march to express his position, then he marches. If he doesn't, he doesn't. An hour, a day, a week...none of that makes any difference. You can say, "Well, nothing will come of it," but that's wrong. Nothing will come of it for the OTHERS; this doesn't tell us what will come of it for the participants. And that should be all that matters.

    I was at one of the largest pro-gun rallies ever, Lansing Michigan in 1994. It didn't take organization; it took the publicity of basically one popular talk-show host. There were about 10,000 people there and it was very moving. No, it didn't win any battles and by the next year the crowd dwindled down to a few hundred. No matter though, because the participants knew why they were there and that they weren't alone...not at all.

    Sometimes it's just a matter of doing the right thing at the right time. Myself, I don't see how any war can be won without knowing what the hell you're fighting for. This time around, "because I was told to do it," just ain't gonna cut it. The deck is stacked and you know it. Nothing will stop the destruction except production and unless and until men understand exactly for what they should produce--their own lives--then nothing's going to amount to a hill of beans anyway.

    Who owns you, Dan? Who owns me? Who owns MTP? Now you forget about everything else; just tell me what he's got wrong in that comment that you wouldn't be proud to stand and march with him.

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    1. Jimbo....I don't know if anything is wrong in MTP's comments. Nothing as far as I'm concerned. Fact is you folks can go ahead and march without any forethought; without plan. That is ones choice.

      So, at this juncture Jimmy, you can take your overdone analysis of my remarks and put them where the sun don't shine -:). Oh....and your game of constant questions at the conclusion of your expansive responses....ain't playin' that game with you. For you understand it is difficult to argue and debate with one (you Jimbo) who is an ideologue.

      Remember Jimmy....you possess the mentality that no matter what the facts before you, Jim Klein will ALWAYS dispute. You can spin your bull feces until the cows come home....Toll = Tax per Webster's. But not in Klein's sovereign citizen mind.

      Enjoy your New Year Jimbo. It may be your, our last.

      DAN III

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  24. I will expand on some things here because Dan has some good points as do the rest of us but I think we are all on different pages or at least we have a different vision of what is proposed.

    I have been speaking of a local state march to the Capital building. We have done protest there and some of you have attended. I think we had at most 50 people. I dont expect that we would get many more than that at our march but as Jim points out these things are a matter of publicity. I already have a route of march in mind and a starting point with historical significance. This is about a 20 mile route so its doable in a day. Plenty of places to stop along the way for needs. Groups could do the whole march or they could break it up into sections and have transport from one section to the next. Each marcher would be responsibly for pick up at the destination. Each marcher would be responsible for food and water along the route of march. Each marcher would be responsible for basic first aid for themselves along the route of march however medics will be available if significant issues arise as well as 911. Comms will be between the column head, center ,tail ,and with a route recon team in advance of the column in a vehicle.

    Now thats a plan for a small local march because thats all that I expect that can be acomplished on a short time frame. You cannot plan for the numbers that MAY come. We have no way of knowing who would attend. You plan for the time and distance. 1 Day and 20 miles means marchers are on their own for logistical support. If we go beyond that then yes we would need campsites and more planning.

    So Dan I know I dismissed your points rather quickly but its because I think we are seeing this form different places.



    Grenadier1

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    1. Gren 1....my points were written to help indicate issues/concerns that SHOULD be considered. Seems to me your short outline you provided with your plans is good effort and an indication of your leadership. You considered much more then most.

      Thanks for your reply and good luck in all you do.

      DAN III

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    2. So, are you kittin' up and walkin'?

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    3. I will yes sir.
      Crickets cause I spent the last 4 or 5 days participating in the great assault weapons purchase of 2012.


      Grenadier1

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  25. Maybe a different, albeit late, perspective can help here;

    I think the idea of a mass march from multiple parts of the country to a single point could be a good idea, and could be effective. However there's a couple hiccups to deal with.

    As was mentioned, the logistics issues for this are very real- moreso the farther one plans to march, and even more when you multiply the number of people involved. In THEORY it is as easy as "strap on your boots and let's go", but if one thinks about it for a few minutes, it is not. For one, are individual marchers going to be able to carry all the supplies they will need for multiple days on the road on their person? I don't think so....
    And if they can't this is going to be a real short march if they can't resupply. So what are our options for individual resupply?
    I'm sure it could be accomplished at any towns we come across (in fact, given the point of this idea, it would make sense to hit as many as possible along the way), but at the same time are 500, or better yet 5000 locusts descending upon a town going to make us a good name? Aside from buying up everything in sight, after a few days on the road sweating under all that gear, we're all going to stink like a bunch of sorry bastards. Who here thought of that one? It would make sense, if we're to make our point well, we be at the very least presentable at the points we come in contact with large groups of other people?
    And then of course, sleeping accomodations- fill up a hotel or two (expensive, may be anti-gun and won't allow it)? Maybe not such a great idea. Ok so it's camping out under the stars then- where? Just outside town limits? IN town like a park or such? On a friend's property? "Along the road" doesn't sound to smart...
    What about wheather complications?

    (continued)
    JustARandomGuy

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    1. Not to say I only complained, there's a couple ways I can see to work around this- one thing that may be advantageous, and is often done in other similar events, is to have a couple support vehicles, that either scout ahead and set up rally points, or move with the group to provide immediate support- now obviously, this is probably going to be up to each individual group, but IF they could get a couple people with the fullsize RVs to volunteer them, they could provide some (if not on a large base, hence the mention of individual groups bringing their own) basic cooking/cleaning/hygiene facilities, as well as a place for people to sack out if they need a rest. Could also function as a medical vehicle for minor issues (sprains,blisters and such).
      As an addition to, or if RVs not available, a couple large pickups or SUVS could function for carrying/storage of re-supply, and medical transport.

      If full-on vehicle support like that is not available for a group, then there needs to at the very least be somone overseeing the planning of the routes they are to take. And this person absoulutely needs to be feeding into/from a higher organization than we apparently haven't got now. In other words, it wll be all well and good for individuals/groups to gear up and march from point A to point B, but if we're all spread out along the way, well, frankly that's dumb. There's no impact that way, and straggling groups are easy targets.
      So at the minimum, there needs to be some sort of planned rally point for individuals/groups to meet at (and some one there to meet and direct incoming groups, hand out marked maps, etc.), and then a pre-planned route to follow, regardless of whether the organizers feel the need to have a 1 day or 1 week march.
      And by pre-planned routes, I also mean contingency plans- what if on the "day of" your supporting vehicles cannot follow your line of march due to road construction/traffic jams? I've been on major highways like I-95 that have gotten backed up for miles, taking hours to travel minute distance over a single accident.
      What if you get to a town you planned a re-supply/campout at and are confronted with a police roadblock because of all the fear-mongering generated by the media circus this will become (who thought of that one?)?
      In fact, speaking of media, what's the plan to deal with any prospective harrassment by said goons? Sure the ol' "piss off bloke" is attractive but helps us none. What do we say to them when they're contorting in paroxysms of fear over all these horible people toting guns and other military-looking gear?
      What about interactions with the local populace? Perhaps some sort of simple brouchure outlining who we are, and what our goals are with this martch, available to anyone to print out as many copies as they'd like to hand out would be useful.
      What about legal issues (real or imagined)? If somebody starts blathering about how "you can't have THAT here" who's our elected legal rep. who we can call to the front to deal with such folk?
      What about a couter-march by anti-gun protesters? If you want this to be big (and any other way frankly will do squat- in fact this may ultimately do the same no matter how big or well organized), word WILL get out (it has to if you want anyone to show up), and we all know how quick the anti's are on organizing stuff like this.

      (continued)
      JusARandomGuy

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    2. Some other things to think about- the US is a pretty big place. As we have all seen, it's VERY difficult to get people to spend money to travel long distances outside their individual states (if the turnout to any serious training class is any clue). Actually, it's hard enough to get them to travel IN their own state.
      And you want people to come from all over to march to, say, D.C.?
      I hate to say it, but good luck with that....
      Ok so MAYBE if we were to put forth a herculanean effort we might get some folks on the east coast to do it- let say we get real lucky and get large numbers from VA. W-VA, NC, SC, PA, and such.
      What about everyone else? What about the folks in Montana or Arizona or Florida, or even California that WOULD have done it but can't due to distance or monetary restraints?
      Perhaps this would be the situation to implement the "we must all hang seperately or we will all hang together" policy. After all, as some are fond of saying, "all politics are local". Who cares what DC does, if your home state can actually think for itself? "Secession of the mind happens before secession of the body", and all that.
      Granted, what I'm suggesting would take an even GREATER amount of coordination at a high level, to get muliple states to do X activity at X time/date. But it would make a LOT more sense.
      You could have multiple mass-rally points throughout each state, that any interested persons or groups could simply drive themselves and their gear to, with the aim of say, a 1 or 2 day march to the state capitol as the overall goal. That would solve (most of) the time/distance/supply/legality issues, and may get more people involved as it will be THEIR OWN state, not some fantasy land where no one will listen anyway. Or I could be completely wrong but it's a thought.

      Anyway, I'm sure I've said enough here.
      Good luck with whatever happens. (And I mean that without sarcasm)

      JustARandomGuy

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    3. Oh wait- one other thing to think about.
      Say we've all marched to whatever capitol, now what?
      I would think some sort of activites would need to be planned, otherwise it's going to turn into a "mill around in groups at the barbecue" only without the barbecue....
      I'm honestly not sure what would be effective in this case.

      JustARandomGuy

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